And now a word about that fanart…this is why we can’t have nice things.
on November 5th, 2010It was just brought to my attention that a fan artist who was kind enough to let me put her work in A Distant Soil in the 1990′s claims that I never paid her for use of the work.
I didn’t. It’s fan art.
If you don’t want me to publish your fan art, you are welcome to send it to me with a note asking me NOT to publish it. You are welcome to post it on your own pages.
But don’t send your work to me, then claim I am ripping you off or trying to steal it when I publish it at your request.
This artist befriended me at a show then begged to be allowed to contribute to Images of A Distant Soil, a gallery of ADS art by professional creators. Her work was so late we could not include it, and while it was good amateur work, it was not professional caliber. For some perspective, that book included the work of Walt Simonson. David Mack, Jim Valentino, Jose Luis Garcia Lopez, Buichi Terasawa: top quality creators. (And for some more perspective, the whopping profit on this thing was $23 per page.)
This was nothing personal against this artist. Leah Adezio also sent me a nice piece for Images of A Distant Soil which I chose not to use. She also later asked me to please publish it as fan art, and I did. I never had any further complaints from Leah. And I truly appreciate the fan artists who take time to make pictures of my work.
The disappointed fan artist asked me to publish her work as fan art in the A Distant Soil comic. I was happy to do so. Until…
Even I, the artist, do not get my work back from the publisher within 60 days. But within 60 days of publication, the fan artist imagined I was trying to steal her original art.
As the creator of A Distant Soil , I do not get paid within 60 days of publication. Sometimes not even within six months. But I was accused of non-payment for fan art on a book within 60 days of sale date.
There is little enough profit on the book as is without dividing up the modest income among the fan artists who send in their work. And there was no profit after adding up the costs of rushing the original art back via international Fedex from our printer to placate this woman. We could not use UPS: they were on strike. Not to mention the many long distance phone calls dealing with this mess: some $800 worth. And aren’t you glad we have long distance plans now? There was no profit.
After months of dealing with these complaints, I tried to track her down when the accrual statement for the book came in, but no go. She had disappeared.
What should I do if I find her? I am pretty certain this is the kind of person who will not be satisfied no matter what I do. The minute her art was returned, she dropped off the face of the Earth. If someone owed me money, I suppose I’d, I dunno, send an invoice? Keep current contact info?
But there’s nothing to invoice because she knows perfectly well she asked me to publish her fan art for which she knew perfectly well she would not be paid.
DON’T send me fan art, ask me to use it, and then complain about it later. There is NO payment for use of fan art on this website or in the comic. Can’t do it. Sorry.
PLEASE send me nothing you don’t want me to publish on the website or in the comic. OK?
I love fandom as much as the next person, and I think fanart and fanfic are great. I got my start in comics working on The Legion of Superheroes apazine Interlac. I’ll never forget the day Keith Giffen called me up and asked me if I’d be interested in working on the Legion!
But every once in awhile, someone becomes a pain in the butt.
If you want to make fanfic and fanart, it might be best to start a Yahoo group mailing list or something. I’d be happy to link to it. But I am not in a position to profit share fanart, and I can’t publish your fanfic at all.
If you don’t want it on the website or in the comic, PLEASE make that clear.
EDIT: To answer a couple of emails, no, the comics don’t make money. The graphic novels do. I have paid several authors and artists who worked on comics that made profits. Ellen Kushner, Delia Sherman, Jan Strnad, Caesar, Neil Gaiman, Kelly Freas, David Mack, to name a few.
But not every issue makes dough, and expenses vary, particularly advertising expenses. It’s pro-rated profit share. Every time we go to press with a GN, those expenses are accounted against comic book income, it can be 6-12 months or more before royalties come in to cover the five figure GN printing expense.
Have some reality to go with your check. Image is a co-op, and we don’t get page rates or any front income at all. It’s all back-end profit share. I’ve made decent money on the GN’s over the years, but not on the individual comics. They are a loss leader.
UPDATE: As of 2-10-12 the libelous comments this fan posted on their devianart account about my non-payment, and attempt to abscond with their art, as well as the ludicrous claim my Teh Evil destroyed their comics career hopes, have now been removed. They also removed all other fan comments relating to their original post, including the link directing them here.
And for the record, despite the claim that I failed to pay for their work, they never approached me for payment, even after seeing this post.
Since their original comments are now removed, as far as I’m concerned, the matter is closed.
Though a public apology and retraction to follow up their years of public excoriation would have been nice. Yeah, I know, wish on a star.




if I ever send you what could be considered my “fan art,” I would be honored if you published it.
I don’t really consider it “fan art,” but I did learn tricks to draw from all the different variants of ADS.
Back in the 90s, I had tons of letters printed in letter columns (back when those actually existed). I’m thinking of demanding royalties!
I had fanart and letters printed, too. I WANT MY MONEY!
I found out about this today, BTW. She has made NO EFFORT to come to me at any time. It’s been what, 12 years? Am I hard to find?
There was NO confusion about this. It was fan art, and I said it 100 times. She knew that going in. As a matter of fact, I made sure I made good size copies of her art and sent them to her so she could have them to sell as mini posters. About 20, as I recall.
I think she was just PO’d because I had no place for her art in Images of A Distant Soil. She wanted to be in a book with all those big names so she could have a real pro credit. But she was, literally, unable to deliver a piece before the book came out.
She was on the phone for hours at a time, and frankly, it would have been better if I had just written her a check and not spoken to her. I would have saved a bundle.
Can’t believe this bubbled up today.
*facepalm*
*getting on with my own original work*
‘Fan Books’ do exist, based on popular manga series brought out by the publisher, with official art, story info and fan art printed beside each other. I don’t think those kids will be ‘reimbursed’ for their hard work soon. Fanzines on the other hand… well.
That was a nice fan-art feature that was posted earlier today. Deviantart does funny things when upgrading their website, so when providing links to pictures, rather than copying the address like: http://browse.deviantart.com/?q=distant%20soil&order=9&offset=24#/d23nx7a , you should click the title of the image to get the ‘real’ page, like: http://mamcha.deviantart.com/art/a-faraway-dirt-127087318
It just goes for tidier linking and backtracking. Yes.
Oh, thank you for that advice!
And yeah, I was having a conversation the other day about how to set up any web stuff so as to be fair to fans as possible.
For example, some fans have asked to post adult content work. And I thought hm, maybe someday it would be best to have a subscriber password protected page for fans so they could post their fan art and fics and I could post exclusive stuff.
Then I realized I could be accused of profiting from the fan’s contributions.
So, I think the best way to deal with that is just to ask people to set up a Yahoo group where they could post whatever they like. And I could just link to it.
If I were to do some sort of companion book or collection, any reuse of fan art would be compensated. But I’m going to be very careful about it. Once burned, twice shy. I hate that because I know most fans are cool.
Maybe this sounds whiney, but sometimes I feel like fandom gets hijacked by the same 140 crappy people, over and over again. And everybody else is pretty cool. But that little group of monsters…ugh.
Tar baby’s of fanac. PLEASE GO AWAY!
@Colleen–you can set up a password protected page via wordpress in the page–>new; find visibility on the right, click edit, choose password protected and create a password. Give it out to subscribers? Lots of little tricks with WP. You can also make sure the images don’t appear in search engine results by editing a piece of code in your .htaccess file. If you have a cpanel or admin access to your host admin panel, you can password-protect folders or parts of a site, and create usernames/passwords, though that’s a lot of work. A yahoo-group is certainly easier, but it is possible and not too hard to do here, AND you can retain some semblance of control over it. Nothing quite like discovering a nest of slash fiction somewhere else online!
Thing is, if people want to publish fanfic and all, well, this is a commercial website. That basically makes me responsible for all content, and means I profit from the fan’s work. I don’t know if I want to do that. I think the fans might be better off running their own show. A Yahoo group might be best.
BTW, the new system DOES have a Member’s Only feature, which I am too deadline swamped to set up and use. Might be something for next year, and a way of paying back some of the nice people who were a part of the old fan club.
Wow, almost makes me wish I could draw. I’ve really missed out on a potential goldmine.
On the othe hand, I did have a letter published in the WArP comic. Colleen, by my calculation, you now owe me all the money in your purse, plus a million dollars. I take cheques.
I think it is very kind of you to link to fan art, and you have been extraordinarily kind printing fan art back then. My experience is, artists rather ignore fan art, and probably for good reason. Not all may have time or will to deal with this sort of abuse. I’m sorry you had to go through this.
Thanks, guys. Sorry to be such a whiner about this, but it all came up because I posted the links to the fan art. What a buzzkill.
I promise this won’t make me a grumpy pro.
@ Justin: I’ll be happy to write you a nice big check which will bounce to the moon and back!
I should write to DC, I bet I have 20-some years of back royalties built up from that letter I had printed in Superman v2 #4. Clearly it contributed substantially to the book’s success.
I almost printed her name and a link to some of her art, but I thought that would be cruel. She has minimal online presence, but perhaps someone she knows will point this out to her. I don’t see that she has posted any art in years.
I was just chatting with Image Comics partner Jim Valentino about this.
Few Image Comics make much (if any) money, and many of us have done pinups and various projects on each other’s work for no pay.
For example, I did a full color painting for Erik Larsen’s Dart miniseries, and a pinup for John Romita JR’s The Grey Area.
I don’t believe I have dogged them for the last 15 years over the big debt they owe me, either.
You mean we could claim compensation for letters of comment? Waaa! I had no clue! FIVE YEARS of lots and lots that saw print and not a penny to me!
*sniff* Although I do actually have people come up to me and say they always liked my letters to DC and that they looked for them. So I did get something of an audience from them.
Seriously…. compensation for fan art? What was that person thinking?
You could set up a subscriber section with fan art with a release stating that the art in this section is 1: not fit for minors and 2: understood to be paying for the exclusivity of being in the subscriber section even if it was a donation and 3: understood that no funds earned by being there will be reimbursed and 4: that you have the right to refuse any image.
er… sorta like “okay, I just paid to have this piece to be viewed at a museum in the XXX section. I’m not going to earn a penny for it being there, but the fact that it is there is status in and of itself.”
Deluded. Her behavior was very erratic: she vacillated between wildly egocentric and severe self deprecation.
She felt grateful to be a fan artist getting published one minute, and then she openly declared if she was good enough to be in my book, she was as good as me, and therefore a pro.
I only had contact with her for a few months, and only met her once. I was very glad to see her in the rear view mirror.
But objects in the rear view mirror may appear closer than they are.
@ Mamid: I still think the Occam’s razor to all that is to just ask people to set up a Yahoo group.
I am open to any and all suggestions, but frankly, am so distracted with work, I am not sure I am as open minded about them as I ought to be. I am online now because I have a lot of digital work to do!
work. do work. have a venti on me. well… except the tax…
mmmMMMM COFFEE! Thank you!
problem with yahoo – I think somewhere in their disclosures, they “own” everything submitted to them. One of the reasons why I don’t submit stuff to any of the lists I’m on anymore.
I don’t think that’s legally enforceable. But if it’s in there, I’d like to see it.
Remind me never to piss you off, Colleen.
Fan art is fun to do and, right or wrong, I’ve always considered it a means of showing my admiration and affection for an author or artist. You couldn’t really put a price on that even if it wasn’t a derivative work. It’s just so sad that you seem to attract the crazies and that they are SO unreasonable. Fandom is a truly scary place.
Do you get a lot of fanart submitted here? If there’s scads of it, it would be a good idea to have a separate members only group for it with a lockable section for the naughty stuff, because with fans there always IS naughty stuff. A link to it from here and it’s the best of both worlds – a nice fan playground with clear disclaimers indicating that no money is to be made there and Official Colleen Sanction from the A Distant Soil website. And you and your web-elves wouldn’t have to administer it.
Frankly, the ONLY reason I bought Dart was for your pin-up, so, y’know, your presence there did contribute to part of the book’s, er, profits…
I did buy The Grey Area too, but that was mostly for JRJR’s work, so I’ll let ‘em off that one.
Ray, don’t be silly. I’d I were really pissed off, I’d name her.
@ Sal: Everybody attracts the crazies. And this was, like, 12 years ago? I am much more careful about setting boundaries.
I think I actually mentioned this incident years ago on my old blog, but had almost forgotten it.
Yes, people send me plenty of fan art, and when I get the chance I intend to upload more to the gallery. We’re having trouble with the gallery function.
@ Allan: I was just trying to add up all the projects I had worked on for free over the years, and man it’s a long list. Don’t mind sometimes, other times, I do. But I really can’t wrap my brain around demanding payment for fan art.
Maybe she just misunderstood in some way, but if she did, she made NO attempt to contact me. If payment is due, send invoice. I NEVER heard anything from her about payment, because she knew perfectly well there would be none. The only time I heard from her after publication was her frantic efforts to get her art back. She called me a thief, and I was not amused. She really REALLY didn’t understand how long it takes to get art back from the publisher.
I just got Book of Lost Souls art back from Marvel. I haven’t worked on that book since 2007
And I just sent a client a late notice for work I did last April.
And folks, if you really want to know why it is so hard for beginners to break in, this is it. This sort of thing happens a LOT with beginners, and much of my day was spent on the phone with pros who read this and howled with laughter, because every single last one of us has been through it. Since I don’t normally publish other people’s work, I have gotten off light, but this is common as crabgrass.
wow, see that’s what happens when I stay off the internet for a day. Sorry to drop that link on you.
Fortunately it doesn’t look like this person has done any other work; her DA page hasn’t been updated in forever and from the comments she’s one of those “my first work didn’t make me a star, you people are mean and I’m quitting comics forever” kind of people, it looks like.
Pity, I kinda liked that drawing. Now I look at it and go “butthurt priviledged artiste-type”
Well, I’m the butthurt pro getting peevish about it years later, but I was sure surprised.
Crikey, I drove her out of comics!
My evil mojo destroys another contender! HA HA! Soon I shall have no rivals left!
By golly.
Ad you hide your power so well!
MWUHAHAHAHA!
Not getting paid for the publication of one piece of fan art wouldn’t even make me blink. Not getting paid for the publication of one image – fan art or no – wouldn’t make me blink.
Much less drive me out of publishing.
I guess I’m just not sensitive.
I bought a four pack of Starbucks with Mamid’s donation! Thank you!
I got a couple of private letters about this, and I want to thank you guys for your clear-headed responses.
I’ve always prided myself on the way I treat my fellow creators, and have never walked away from a payment. So being accused of it by a neurotic fan artist is pee in my cornflakes.
And now I want payment for that fan letter I had published in the X-Men.
What about your debut letter in Super Friends? That’s gotta be worth a fortune for its prescience alone…
http://www.thefifthbranch.com/gorilladaze/?p=32
WAAAAGGGGGHHH! Holy sheeeiiit! DC Comics owes me a kajillion bucks!
BTW, got my first pervo-letter after getting that published. Some guy wrote me asking if I would send him my panties. And I got letters from convicts. My parents had a fit.
SUPER FRIENDS? You have totally killed my cred with that, dude!
Aw, I don’t think your cred suffers from that example, Colleen! You demonstrate the key points of a publishable letter of comment: Enthusiasm for the title; intelligent critique of the story and/or art, referencing specifics; and a humorous bit thrown in (I like the bit about the dogs!).
Ah, the days of letter-hacking!
I’m now going to go somewhere and LAUGH!!! “Colleen wrote a LOC to SUPER FRIENDS!” Heeheeheeheeehee.
Hey now!
Convicts were reading Super Friends and we all know that they are all tough bad Mofo’ s.
( Or so I hear.)
They were probably all sex offenders looking for kids.
Curses! I will never live this down.
I remember the letter from the convict: his last name was Holland, and he was incarcerated in Florida.
He had very nice penmanship, but my dad nearly had a cardiac that my address appeared in public. After the X-Men letter, I wasn’t allowed to write any more letters to comic books! Sob!
I remember someone on e-Bay selling that X-Men issue purely on the strength of your letter being in it…
Marvel totally owes me!
@Colleen “I will never live this down”
It was 1977. Let’s see – you can’t be a day over 35.
Hence, you were a wee babe. You were obviously a prodigy to be writing so well at a tender age.
LOL!
And folks, I was wrong. That issue the fan artist complains about not getting paid for did make money.
I went back and ran the numbers best I could based on what I still have on that book.
It made a whopping profit of a pro-rated $8 and change per page.
If she ever shows up again, I’ll pop her a ten spot. Seriously, just to make a point.
Know what I made for the full page painted art on Tori Amos Comic Book Tattoo?
$14 per page.
The first ADS GN earned over $100,000, which is pretty much how I finance the comics. Not great money when you divide it up over all the years its been in print, but it adds up.
That would be the equivalent of $7,692 per year, with most of the money coming in on the front end of those years, and trailing off to a trickle. So, even if the comic was making chump change, for awhile there I was pulling in $15,000 or more on the GN’s per year.
Not anymore, dammit.
which issue of X-men? I wanna read this letter.
Colleen, I got a few of those prison letters myself for a time. Except that the writers were not eager to admit that’s where they were. But there’s something about a really long PO Box number that just… gives it away.
I had one correspondent, that I got 3 letters from, and each letter was completely different in voice/style from the previous. The only thing that made me moderately certain it was the same guy was that there was a continuity in the conversation. But he started out by writing in a persona that was identifying with the Joker. Kindof off putting. The third one was in a very stilted voice, informing me that he had started seriously studying Judaism. It was weird.
I was glad when shortly after that, DC stopped printing addresses, and just identified letter writers by the cities they were from.
I honestly am having trouble comprehending this. Maybe she was never really a fan and just saw it as a way to break in or something?
Honestly, I’m having trouble figuring out her thought process behind this. It’s like giving someone a gift and asking for money back. (Or buying someone a gift with their own money. I’ve actually known people who had this happen to them.)
Many fans are aspiring pros. They try to get close to pros, so we will give them a chance at a job. There are a lot of false friends you have to wade through.
I have written on this board 100 times that a REAL fan is never a problem. EVER. The problem is wannabes.
Aspiring pros are the worst. Every single time I have ever had a problem with a fan, it was really with a wannabe who was trying to get into the business. The worst is the person who actually has some credits, but is not able to move forward with their career. If they don’t get everything they want from you, they get pretty damned nasty.
Consider how insane it is that I would even WANT to take someone’s fan art from them. What the heck?
This woman went from being positively fawning to vicious. She ungraciously informed me she was a better artist than me (not in this life,) and I was using her – for what, I have never figured out.
A professional makes a living at art. Merely declaring yourself a professional doesn’t make you one.
A professional would get a contract and establish payment rate. Popping a piece of art in the mail and crossing your fingers is not a contract.
There is a disclaimer in every issue of A Distant Soil which declares that anything you send to me is considered to be intended for publication unless otherwise indicated. I assume you want me to print your letters and fan art.
After she got her art back, I never heard from her again.
I have not had any serious problems with wannabes since. I can spot the danger signs quickly, now.
Years of practice.
And yes, I have also had people buy me gifts with my own money.